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 A couple more questions that have come up for me...

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RDaneel

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PostSubject: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 11:12

Hi guys,

Hope you don't mind me using you folks as a sounding board for this stuff... but if there was a better / more explanatory SEV manual or document out there, probably wouldn't need to ask...

1. Why is it that I can *occasionally* see other players' mines even with normal sensors? Does this in turn mean that they can *occasionally* see mine (mines)? Weird.

2. If two or more players share a system (each has one or more colonies in the system) and one player *gifts* the system to the other, what exactly is going to happen? My assumption would be that all of the colonies in that particular system for player A would transfer loyalty to the gifted player B, but I want to be sure on this. Not sure how the game calculates system "ownership" or system "loyalty".

3. With weapons that have special damage types such as *kills crew* or *damages engines*, does this weapon have NO affect on the target ship until all shields/armor is depleted by some other weapon? Or does the *special damage* weapon ALSO do the specified damage to shields/armor as well as the target component? Or does the special damage weapon *ignore* armor?

3.5 It just occurred to me I could probably use the space simulator to answer the previous question for myself...

4. When you have a colony on *emergency* build or *slow* build, does this affect the rate of population growth and if so, to what degree?

Thanks in advance for any insight on this.
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RDaneel

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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 11:22

One more quick one...

5. In the balance mod, things seem to be REALLY balanced in certain areas to the point that I can't even see the functional difference between different technologies. A good example is torpedo weapons. Other than travelling *slightly* faster and maybe having a *very slightly* higher damage resistance, they seem identical to normal capital ship missiles, but with a *lower* potential damage. I don't get it. Why would anybody spend research points to acquire these weapons? I have seen many examples of this, PDC6 versus flak cannon 1 ~ almost a toss up, only difference seems to be reload time versus hit percentage. Again with bomblet missile, damage is identical but one uses ordinance and can be placed on the inside of the ship whereas the other (FK) has a 20% hit bonus and can only be place on the outside.

Tiny trade offs.

I guess this is the whole point of balance mod maybe? But seems like it almost makes things balanced to the point of either boredom or over-analysis as you try to figure out which tiny advantage is ever so slightly superior to another.

Thoughts on this?
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TheChin!
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 13:50

1. No idea, I haven't seen this. Is it possible a ship with scanners saw it previously and now it's visible always (which would probably be a bug).

2. The planet becomes owned and controlled by the giftee. It disappears form the gifters colony list. Since the planet is filled with a different races, I think their can be loyalty problems in the future. You should monitor such planets for gradual drops in happiness and loyalty. Especially in wartime.

3. I was just thinking about this myself, and I don't know the answer.

4. No change on popualtion growth

5.1 Torpedo's Vs. CSM's
5.1.1 Well torpedos also take up less space (tonnage Used). So you can have 5 anti-matter torps for every 4 CSM's. With the faster speed and reload times you can get a lot more warheads on target. The more warheads you have flying through space, the better chance you have of overwhelming Point Defense on your opponent and getting some in. Also you can squeeze an AMT into a ship design that just barely doesn't have space for a CSM
5.1.2 The Torpedo Weapons Tech branch gives you more stuff higher up, while the Missle Weapons branch dead ends.
5.1.3 CSM's take more resources to build, making ship more expensive and have higher maint costs (unless you do the 4 for 5 deal, than the torps drive the cost up).
5.1.4 Don't forget thet you are also getting Small Rocket Pods or Small Anti-Matter Torps along with those and they are very different.
5.2 Flak Cannons Vs. Point Defense Cannon's
5.2.1 Flak cannon has almost twice the range, and that to-hit bonus is actually a big deal at range since small objects have defense bonus's that subtract from that to-hit rating.
5.2.2 The parity quickly drops off as FC's go up in level. It's only at that one snapshot in PD development that you could make a case for either.
5.2.3 Being able to shoot a seeker or drone at range 100, means you get extra chances at closer ranges (of course modified by reload times), though I believe crew experience can lessen reload times but I could be wrong about that. With an "onion" defense style you could mix FC's and PDC's to get shots at long range and then quicker shots closer.
5.2.4 There is also the question of application. Maybe FC's are more suited to Weapons Platforms (easily resupplied with Ordinance) and PDC's (or PDB's, both types) are better suited for ships (possibly far from home and low on ordinance), based on supplies usage, supply/ordindance storage and fleet configuration. For example, if you are an Organic race and have Ordinance Vats on your ships, then the FC's become more attractive earlier.

So, to your point, the trade-offs are larger in certain situations than in others, it really depends on how much of a min-maxer you want to be. If you are an underdog in the game, sometimes that tiny difference in one component becomes a big difference when scaled up with many components.

Related Tip:
I have found that using this link: http://www.poeland.com/SE5/techtree/purposes.html and right-clicking components into new tabs gives a great comparison tool by just flipping tabs. You can also tab out the related tech tree's.
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TheChin!
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:01

RE: 3
Check this old thread: http://www.spaceempires.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=22604

I don't know what the latest is on these, but it looks like BM was configured to at least allow them to bypass armor.

Just confirmed by Captain Kwok:
"In stock, they skip both shields and armor. In the Balance Mod, they only bypass armor."
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RDaneel

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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:18

@ special damage types = skip armor ** HOLY SHIT!

That is a way huge thing to know. The whole shields versus armor debate becomes totally different in this light.

There is almost no POSSIBLE way to design a "well rounded" ship that works in all situations I think I am starting to see. You really have to design against the tech of your specific foe. This actually makes the other (min/max) discussion a lot more relevant since seemingly minor differences could make a huge difference depending on what exactly you're up against.

Fascinating.

Wait... one more thing... We didn't answer the question of whether or not the special damage types do DAMAGE to shields or if they are simply BLOCKED by shields. This is important. For instance, an Ionic Mine (damages only engines). If I have shields am I immune? Or could enough Ionic Mines over power my shields and eventually kill my engines?
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:25

I posted a follow up question to the Cap'n. I suspect that your ship won't fire that weapon until shields are down. I'm pretty sure that's how ship capture works (at least it did back in the day). As far as mines go, we'll see.
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:40

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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 18:47

RDaneel wrote:
Hi guys,

2. If two or more players share a system (each has one or more colonies in the system) and one player *gifts* the system to the other, what exactly is going to happen? My assumption would be that all of the colonies in that particular system for player A would transfer loyalty to the gifted player B, but I want to be sure on this. Not sure how the game calculates system "ownership" or system "loyalty".

4. When you have a colony on *emergency* build or *slow* build, does this affect the rate of population growth and if so, to what degree?

2. Are you talking gifting Systems or planets? If systems, then in practice, nothing happens. Gifting system control is just an indicator of intentions. Nothing actually changes hands.

If planets, they see Chin's answer above.

4. Emergancy and slow only affect the Build rate (ie: resource consumption rate) of a planet. Facility output, growth and maintenance are unaffected.
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 19:36

Thanks Chin. Still slightly ambiguous but I read his answer to mean "NO special damage types do NOT damage shields, and YES ionic (only) mines are useless against shielded ships, and YES the special damage weapons do not fire unless shields are down."

Is that how you are reading the response? Maybe I will test in the simulator anyway.

Thanks Bearclaw. So your understanding of gifting systems is that is DOES NOT gift all colonies in the system. If I want to gift a system to somebody, I need to gift each colony in the system individually.
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Wed 15 Jul 2009, 19:46

Yeah, that's how I interpret it.
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Thu 16 Jul 2009, 11:14

And yes to my answer too.
In regards to mines, IIRC, when ships are not in combat they do not have their shields up. so if they hit an Ionic minefield, their engines will get blasted.
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Thu 16 Jul 2009, 13:15

Ah.
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Fri 17 Jul 2009, 08:44

They probaly should have a shields up button like they do for cloaking. When you force shields on your supply usage and maintenence is higher. That way you could switch them on before going through warp points and then shut them off later.
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PostSubject: Re: A couple more questions that have come up for me...   Fri 17 Jul 2009, 10:55

Ahh yes, another wish list feature.

And again, another hidden behavior that I wish was documented someplace.
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